Open Thread Thursday

We'd love to hear your thoughts on an interesting discussion going on at the Silicon Valley Moms Blog re: Asian participation in local schools.

Poster Katie Roper feels that there is a "problem with the white PTA" at her school, but what she really means is that there is a problem with Asians not pulling their weight at her school. (Let's just cut the BS and get to the heart of the matter, Katie.)  Then she "clarifies" by not apologizing for her racist bullshit saying that the real issue is the anti-Asian sentiment at her school in general. The take away? Asians better get with the PTA program or else.

Update: The posts have been removed from the SV Moms site and an apology is now up in their place, but a Kimchi Mamas reader copied the two posts into the comments below for anyone interested in reading them and carrying on the discussion.

 

What else is on your mind today?

 

--The Kimchi Mamas

Comments

[daddy in a strange land]

Guess great minds think alike, I was about to post on RD about this this morning when I saw your open thread topic. So I linked to you in my post. Come on over and spread the comment-discussion love!

[steen]

I read about this on Mama Nabi's website and have been mulling it over. (In between working and wedding planning, anyway.)

"Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like the State of California is ever going to give the schools enough money to hire parking lot supervisors, art docents, PE teachers, or to purchase playground equipment, school supplies, or computers."

Welcome to virtually every public school system in the country, honey.

Instead of seeing that 25% of the school is Asian and 90% of the PTA is white, perhaps she should look at the number of parents who have children enrolled in that school and compare it to the number of parents in the PTA.

[Linda B]

"And while I may or may not be a racist myself, I hate to see it in my community." -
I read this quote from her "defense" post and was a bit confused. So.... is she not denying the fact that she is racist? how does this make sense? Apparently she does not even know that she has racist tendencies, judging from this statement. If she doesn't think she's racist, or that this post was racist, why not just say "I'm not a racist?"

This obviously does not help the ridiculous claims she is trying to justify. I was apalled at her blatant stereotypes of Asians as well as other parents of other races who tend not to participate in the PTA or other school related activities. It is obviously too simple to chalk it up to the fact that people are busy, have jobs, families, etc. While I do think it is important to be involved in your child's life and education, by no means does whether or not you are involved in PTA determine your level of dedication to your child or how much value you put in education. I think her entire series of posts are just ridiculous.

[Linda B]

Oh, one more thing! (Because ok, totally not over it yet)

Re: this statement
"So how can we get the message out: Welcome to America, now write your check to the PTA and sign up for Hot Lunch duty!"

After my vision cleared, you know, from the blind rage, I totally felt like popping her one in the dome. C'mon. Even if she's trying to end it on a light, funny note - she failed on all levels. Again, so offensive. Mrs. Roper? Not. Funny. At. All.

Btw, I was born here and this makes me an American citizen, so you can just shut it.

Ok, am over it now! Um. kind of.. FINE. I'm working on it.

[halfmama]

I'm not fine. That Welcome to America comment was ... just. unreal.

To me, her follow up post says: "Let's all learn from this, and when I say let's, I mean you, Asian parents."

Close-minded, stubborn ignorance. The worst.

[Mama Nabi]

Yeah, I wrote a post about her first post - I just went over there to comment on her second post... althought I suspect she's too steeped in her own ignorance that she ignores to acknowledge that anything will get through to her.

I really think her post regarding MLK day reveals a lot about this woman. She definitely thinks a lot of race, i.e. that she's a better race, but she's well-educated enough to know that it's tacky, classless, trashy and plain despicable to come right out and say it - but she just can't help herself, she has to share her superiority. Her first post was so poorly disguised it was pathetic. Not exactly too bright for an ivy-leaguer.
I loved what a commenter (Karen) said - she pretty much asked them to remove her blog from the SV Mom's blogroll because Katie Roper is just that offensive. Rock on!

[Angie in Texas]

her comments are racist. period.

i hate the "welcome to america . . . " statment: it's not funny, it's not light-hearted - it's racist and it's offensive. she gets participation in the PTA confused with caring about (y)our child's education. i care deeply about my kids' education and i participate as much as i can, but given work and family obligations, sometimes it's not gonna happen.

also, in a previous post here on KM, someone mentioned being left out of the "cool kids" party (a get together of moms for cocktails, etc.) perhaps if the white moms were more open minded or just open, asians and other minorities wouldn't feel so 'left out'.

frankly, i've seen this type of behaviour before and i've made my call on it. usually it boils down to a group of parents that need to 1. grow up - we're not in high school any more, 2. have too much time on their hands that groups like the PTA take on a meaning/importance in their lives that is out of perspective and 3. take a hard look at themselves and what they're really about because they are making some serious judgements about people they haven't taken the time to get to know!

*when i called some parents at our school on it, they wanted to include me into their group and i said "i don't think so." i don't want to be a part of a group of judgemental, narrow minded (closet?) racists

arrrrggghhhhh!

[Mama Nabi]

Hm. They took the posts down. Any idea what may have prompted that?

[daddy in a strange land]

Damn, I missed the follow-up post before they took 'em both down! :)

[myuneuri]

When racism intersects with I-
am-a-better-parent-than-you superiority complex, it sure isn't pretty.

[Jill]

Hello Ladies (and gents)
I am the co-founder of SV Moms Blog and I was very upset by the post(s) and then the comments. I asked that they both be taken down by our editor.

I beleive it will be put back up, since I am in the minority ... but as a Jewish mom, who does NOT volunteer in the PTA (because I work and volunteer with some nonprofits, and try to spend time in my daughter's classrooms instead of the PTA), I found this post terribly disturbing and hurtful.

I want to apologize if this offended you. I am really, really sorry and so overly sensitive to racism....... So again, I am sorry.

My hope for SV Moms Blog - or any collaborative blog is that you hear different points of view, but in a respectful and sensitive manner. I would never want to see any group singled out, for any reason....

Again, I am not sure if our editor will put them back up. I am sure we will now get flamed for taking them down, but I would rather get flamed for that, than being a racist.

Jill Asher

[mamazilla]

ARRRRRGH!!!! i miss everything when i take care of my children!!!!! ;)

thanks for all the replays though!

[myuneuri]

Ditto what Angie said.

[kim]

If anyone has a copy of the follow-up response, I'd love to see it.

[Nina]

Sucks, I missed her follow-up post.

But, thanks Jill for responding. I think all of us Kimchi Mamas would agree that, as a collaborative blog, we welcome different opinions, but we expect a basic level of respect and sensitivity. I don't think Katie Roper has demonstrated the ability to talk about race in either a respectful or a sensitive manner.

[honglien123]

Jill,

As a Bay Area Asian mom who does the most I can for my school aged daughter, I can't really add anymore to what the others here have already said. However, I hope that SV Moms has the posts brought back up. Although the posts themselves are quite racists, the discussion generated because of them is important and avoidance is not a solution. From some of the comments to the posts, there seem to be some people who really don't get why the original post was offensive. Some, if I remember correctly, even thanked Katie for giving them a heads up on what it'd be like in their area. People need to see the other comments countering these posts and people need to understand that statements such as "Welcome to America" are ignorant and racist when directed at a general Asian audience. Not to mention the cross section of people Katie surveyed and included in her original post. She didn't even ask her Asian neighbor who started her whole train of thought what she felt about Asian PTA involvement.

It seems that most of the flaming is towards Katie and not SV Moms. Thank you for clarifying why the posts were brought down but please, I hope they are brought back up.

[Angie in Texas]

i just completed reading the entire post and all the comments (and many of the links to other articles). i agree with honglien123 - bring back the posts - it's important to see what was said and read the ensuing comments. i think removing them and hiding from them is a bad move.

i do thank jill for coming on and apologizing for the offensive post.
thank you jill for understanding.

[steen]

I'm most disappointed that Katie turned what should've been a discussion about what she saw as parental duties into a race issue. The topic of empty seats at PTA meetings was actually one worth pursuing but it was quickly ruined by her racist generalizations.

[Carol]

It's Carol, fellow Chicago Moms Blog writer and contributer here at Kimchi Mamas. We can completely empathize on the flaming/things getting personal aspect. But we've never entirely removed a post (we do reserve the right to delete posts from those who obviously have no connection to parenting or being Korean, they just want to troll for trolling's sake). I'll just say this here, because I think SV moms blog has gotten more than enough negative attention, and feel badly that it got so personal. But from a pure discussion and editorial standpoint, I am disappointed that the posts were removed (you can always close comments), instead of taking responsibility for what was put out there and either standing by it and taking the comments, or following up with some genuine clarification of intentions. Just because the fire gets too hot (no pun intended), that means we hightail it and run? I'd prefer to actually grapple and deal with what happened, not just wipe the slate clean and pretend they didn't happen. Try to get some understanding and learning out of it, even if we will never see eye to eye. Or was that post written and published with the implicit expectation that those Asian parents, they won't push back, so here goes? This is very hard because it was so clear that parents of Asian descent were being singled out, and it's not that all these parents don't want to work together to make their children's school a better place, but there is obviously a core set of values and mindsets that one must conform to in order to be deemed as a worthy contributor. And when you do that to any one group, whether it be color, creed, sexual orientation, or whatever it may be, you better know what you are saying and be accountable for it - especially if the person uttering the words and her children are part of the group that has the institutional upperhand. And - "welcome to America" - was that really necessary?. Come on, people. I just shake my head at it all.

[Jill]

Hello - Jill Again.
Just so you know, we pulled the posts but kept the comments up.

I understand - we get flamed for keeping the posts up, or we get flamed for taking them down. I had to make the call, and felt more comfortable with taking them down. May not be the most popular decision, but I had to do what felt right...

But again, all the comments are up and will remain up... forever....

Jill

[galen]

I'm not a Kimchi mama, but a daddy. I live in the Cupertino school district and I would like to thank everyone who has torn Katie Roper a new one. There is a reason why it took Palo Alto six years and the threat of a charter school to finally approve a Mandarin immersion program. Oh, that effort was spearheaded by Chinese American parents, but it did not involve the PTA. I wonder why? Maybe they thought there were more important things than hot lunch duty?

Katie Roper is a CWF, but there is the seed of a point to her post. My cousin immigrated about five years ago and he is of the impression that schools here are absolutely fair -- parental involvement is unnecessary and of little benefit for your kids. When I explained to him how things really work -- parental involvement in your kids' educational institutions will confer significant benefits to said kids -- he was a little dismayed. His response was the classic "But that's how it is in Korea!" Yeah, he was disappointed to learn that things are not that different here. My point is that many first-generation immigrants have too high an estimation of the level of individual meritocracy in this country. They think it's different here and convincing them that it is not can be quite a chore. It's a perception I often don't want to correct anyway -- it reminds me of what this country is supposed to be like.

[twizzle]

Galen - Thanks for your interesting perspective! I can relate to what you say from my own experience as a kid going to a public elementary school in the 1970s. My mom, a first-generation Korean, NEVER attended one PTA meeting, nor did she attend a potluck, or anything having to do with my school except for the required parent/teacher conferences. Her disinterest might have had to do w/ the fact that she was a full-time working single mom with more important things to do; but, I do think that her non-involvement in my school also had to do w/ her cultural belief in the the government as being this all-powerful thing (and the school, by extension) over which individuals have no control. So, what's the point of joining the PTA?

Besides - I am pretty sure that my mom would've had nothing in common w/ the PTA moms, all of whom where white. (I was one of the only Asian-ish kids in my whole school.)

[Angie in Texas]

twizzle: your comments remind me of when i went to school in the early 80's . . . neither of my parents thought to come to PTA meetings and parent-teacher conferences were no good bc they didn't speak the language. they came to the end of the year awards ceremony IF they could, but that was rare. however, they made it well known that A honor roll was expected every 6 week graded period.

i'm sure both of my parents would not have had much in common with the PTA control freaks anyway . . . but they made friends with many of our neighbors (who are/were white, black, hispanic, vietnamese, korean and mixed) . . .

i'm glad i live in a pretty diverse suburban neighborhood. and i make it a point to be friendly with all of my neighbors regardless of their race (it's sometimes not reciprocated, but that's another post for another day . . .)

[halfmama]

Between RobAmy and Katie, I'm going to have a heart attack this week. Fired. Up.

And what's up with 'Aunt Amy' on the apology post?
"...I applaud the author for writing on a sensitive topic, and then constructivlely using the feedback to write an additional entry. It's hard to please everyone..."

"Constructively use the feedback...?" Did I read the same follow-up post? I would have liked to have seen Katie constructively address her 'welcome to America' responses.

"Hard to please everyone?" No ma'am. It's hard to please everyone when you are planning a wedding. It's not hard to avoid deragatory comments.

Obviously the PTA involvement is a hot button issue. It's too bad it has been clouded over by this.

[Ka_Jun]

Why is it, when something like Rosie O'Donnell and this incident happens, the first voice to speak is always an apologist APA who says, "I'm APA, and I'm not offended." Seriously...

"Tina | June 14, 2007 at 12:03 PM"

*sarcasm* "I'm Asian and we DO suck as parents and we ARE uninvolved, as I can attest!"

[MyKianaKeiki]

I didn't get to read the posts by Katie Roper. But I thought that 1) participation in school's PTA was optional and 2) if schools really wanted parents involved in school functions, they make MANDATORY to participate in 1, 2, however many they want, events. My elementary school was a public "alternative" school that emphasized Japanese Bilingual Bicultural Program. This is to say the school relied on the parents to be involved and sent home projects for parents every year to help with decorations for this event or another. They required the parents to volunteer a certain # of hours at such events (and we had a lot of them). The school made it clear at the beginning of each school year and at enrollment that the parents were required to volunteer in some sort of manner. And we were a tight knit school, so the school administrators knew all the parents and could talk to them about how they could help at the events. Sure some parents did more than others, but that was their choice. They, for whatever personal reasons, took on doing more.

If you don't like doing more, feel resentful of doing more, then don't. Don't bitch about people who aren't apart of the PTA. It's optional. Not all parents can afford the time to be apart of the PTA. As some many others have noted, some parents work more than one job to make sure their children can go to school, to make sure their family is provided for. Some parents are intimidated by the PTA and people like Katie Roper; maybe it's because they don't speak the language or maybe because PTAs can be pushy. But it's optional.

Asian Americans continue to be considered this model minority, as having made it because their family incomes are higher than other minority groups. But at what cost does that happen? How many people are contributing to the family income? We struggle just as mightly as other minority groups, it's just not as well advertised. We're like ducks - calmly floating on the surface, but paddling like crazy beneath the surface.

[Mama Nabi]

Katie Roper irked me... but it's frightening that there're so many who either cannot or choose not to see her posts as offensive, that they don't see how much of an elitist, both racially and socio-economically, she comes across in her posts.

[Angie in Texas]

after reading many of the posts at svmoms, i was bothered/irked at the level of socio-economic elitism (sp?) going on . . . i don't like that the issue of race were dismissed with or compared to "what kind of shirt" the others were wearing . . . so does that mean if i wear juicy sweatpants, take bikhram yoga and drink a latte, no fat, extra foam i can join their club, too? but then again i'm asian, i might not bother . . . or understand how to order my coffee (BTW, i drink it black and many baristas i've talked to say the more specific you want your drink is positively related to how big an a-hole you are . . . )

when did acting like a bunch of high school, nay, junior high gaggle of giggling, mean, vicious girls become okay?

*i've read this post multiple times and as a complete (inner) joke i read the post with a paris hilton accent and OMG, it makes SOOOO much more sense. =P

[halfmama]

Angie -- ha ha! I may have to try that because I can't stop commenting over there. Someone please stop me. Katie (and some of the commenters) are just infuriating me. And I'm sure I'm just fanning the flames.

[HCG]

This is why my son kept me up since 2 am this morning -- so he could keep me away from this blog, ARGH! (no he's not sick he just wanted to play and practice his smooth quasi-walking moves)

[halfmama]

Ok, I'm done. This is from another commenter:

"I don't think you're a racist Katie. I think we do things different here in America, in Japan the kids spend more time in school, parent participation is likely not as critical. I think it's truly ridiculous you're being labeled a racist for using the word "Asian", or for challenging non-conforming Asians to adjust their lifestyle to American culture. The readers are truly a burden on this well meaning blog."

He thinks she is being called a racist for using the word ASIAN.

Truly, I'm done now. Since I'm a burden and all. And since some of these people are clearly idiots.

[Kyong]

i was actually touched that jill came here and personally apologized, but i just went over to the svmoms blog site and read the official apology. you know what? the way she phrased her apology post on svmoms actually got me more angry than katie roper's original post. and that's a pretty big feat. jill wrote she's sorry "if" anyone took offense to katie's post. she made it sound as if taking offense at katie's racist posts was a choice (thanks, halfmama for saying it!) or some grey area to navigate. there's no grey; it's pretty blatant racism. it burns me up when people say, "sorry *if* you were offended."

[Jill Asher]

Kyong.
to respond to your comment, some people were offended, some were not. I was offended. I received hundreds of emails (in my gmail account) from folks furious that I took it down, and did not find it racist.

My apology was sincere.

Jill Asher

[Kyong]

jill - i thank you for clarifying your position. i wish the "official apology" post contained the dismay you felt too. yes, i do know (from some of the comments) that some people say they were not offended by katie roper's post. but *i* was dismayed the official stance was to ride the fence. if you saw her post as racist and hurtful too, i wish you would have said it.

[Jill]

Kyong.
I can absolutely see your point. Please give me a little time. Right now, I am quite emotional and have been dealing with hundreds of email flying my way.

Believe me, this is a no win situation.

I am getting flamed for keeping up the posts. I am getting flamed for taking down the posts. I am getting flamed for my apology... ok, so not really flamed for my apology (yet), but it is certainly moving that way.

I have received more calls than I can count - oh, I also was at work and attending my daughter's last day of first grade. I now have a few minutes on the internet.

I promise, when I cool down, I will put up a post on SV Moms Blog.... just give me some time.

Again, my apology was sincere. I found the post offensive and hurtful. I am really sorry that it ever went up.

This will be my last response (for today) because I am heading out to dinner with my family .....

Jill

[Kyong]

i really need to cool down too. jill, you have the hard task of putting out the fires katie's posts started and dealing with ire from all sides (me incl.). i do see now how sincere you are. thanks.

[halfmama]

Just to clarify, my comment was actually directed at LizP, who said:

"There are many times when people choose to take offense at what someone says. "

Oh that comment got me fired up. I get the sense that Jill is just trying to do damage control here, which is probably near-impossible at this point. I'm still shocked that the post was allowed to go up at all, but it was so...

I too wish that Katie was blasted a little more in the apology (and I'm not talking about in the "the feelings written here do not represent the feelings of SVMB" kind of way). But I know that there's a lot going on and a lot of emotion on all sides right now.

[honglien123]

Ok, so I will add a little of what I felt. Some of the comments on the posts are annoying me as well as another unrelated post that was put up by Katie after she "clarified" her position. What I want to know is, if even a founding member of SV Moms was offended, will Katie be allowed to post there again? Now that so many readers have been hurt with no obvious sign of remorse or understanding, is she still welcome to contribute?

It blows my mind how some did not think the posts were offensive. Yes, some of the offended commentors were offensive too but the ones who didn't see what we're so upset about? Those were just downright scary and heartbreaking. This is why I was offended. My kids have an AMERICAN heritage that goes back over 100 years. Their great-grandfather came here in 1901 and worked at some of the most beautiful gardens in Silicon Valley, the Hakone Gardens.

That someone who lives in the Silicon Valley surrounded by some of the largest and oldest Asian communities in America could write something that made such general statements about Asian Americans is practically tragic in its ignorance. The fact that that person gathered only one Asian opinion out of 4 or 5 total to make a statement about Asian Americans as a whole is misrepresentation in a classic sense. The fact that this poster ended her post with "Welcome to America" now join the PTA in addition to the other things was racist, pure and simple. Everyone here knows this, only some of the people out there get it.

The thought that something like that is written by someone who lives in this area of all places and then have people agree that she's not being racist scares the shit out of me. It tells me that we're not that far from history. We're still perceived as foreign and will be for a long time to come. So what's wrong with being perceived as foreign or different you might ask? Ask the Japanese who lived during WWII, ask the tens of thousands of people who were sterilized during government funded Eugenics projects in this country, nevermind the hundreds of thousands in Europe (I only hope people are aware enough of history to understand what that led to). It means you can be kicked out or locked up or worse simply by your ethnicity, heritage, or way of life. I don't think I'm taking my argument too far. It's little subtle things like these posts which can add up to huge injustices when times get rough and the majority opinion goes awry.

I can make it even simpler though. Imagine if she had used words such as "Jews", "Latinos", or "Blacks" for Asians. Would she still be writing for SV Moms? I wonder.

[jstele]

Yes, some of Katie's comments were offensive. Yes, she did not take full responsibility for the things she said. But you can't just look at what she wrote, but the context she was writing in. I really do believe she was sincere in her post. That she really wanted to find a way to get Asians involved in the PTA. Was she skillful in getting her message across ? No. Does she unfairly stereotype Asians in her post? Yes. But I really think people need to consider the fact that she is just revealing how she sees things. Yes, she is very sheltered and ignorant not to know that "welcome to America" and other comments were offensive. But that is her mentality, not to excuse it. How is anything to get done if we are not honest with eachother about how we truly feel? I really don't think Katie wrote those comments to demean Asian people. The responses to her comments were really out of proportion to her statements. Yes, you have a right to get angry and tell her that she is ignorant and offensive. But attacking her verbally is another thing. The reason she said she did not want to get flamed was because she knows that she is not skillful at handling race. I don't think it was a means to shirking her own responsibility for what she says.

As far as Jill goes, I really don't understand why people are giving her a hard time. She did not write Katie's posts. She is not responsible for Katie's posts. How do we know how the SV Mom's blog is moderated? Perhaps each writer has the authority to put up their own post.

Kyong,

"jill wrote she's sorry "if" anyone took offense to katie's post. she made it sound as if taking offense at katie's racist posts was a choice (thanks, halfmama for saying it!) or some grey area to navigate. there's no grey; it's pretty blatant racism. it burns me up when people say, "sorry *if* you were offended."

I think you are arguing over semantics here. Yes, "if" does imply choice, but you have to look at her whole message. I don't think she meant it that way.

I think a lot of people need to cool down. Yes, Katie's comments were ignorant and offensive, but you have to look at where she was coming from.

[Angie in Texas]

WELL SAID Honglien123!!! I think what you've said is SOOO true, especially the end.

I shiver at the thought of what happened to many Muslims (and non-Muslims who were mistaken for Muslims) in the days, weeks, months and years after 9/11.

It is a dangerous slippery slope when people are told "it's not a big deal" and others believe them.

I have no real experience in the SV but I find it ironic that there is white flight from some of the public schools there because the white kids have to compete with the asian kids. isn't this how many african american/latino kids feel but w/o the option of leaving? (I have experience with Texas schools and more experience with the challenges faced by African American and Latino kids than with Asian kids versus white kids.)

[honglien123]

jstele, I agree, we don't need to blame Jill for anything. She's been put into a tough position. For Katie however, even if it was not her intent, it was still the outcome and the least that everyone deserved was a sincere apology which no one got. It's like getting rear ended where your car has a large amount of damage and the person who bumped you got nary a scratch. Sure, they didn't intend to hit you, but they better not tell you that you're whining too much or that you have no reason to be upset. Katie essentially did that and worse, she is directly contributing to the subtle undermining of a race that's only recently gained acceptance in America as being Americans. Not only is that a shirking of responsibility but far beyond rude as well.

[jstele]

To clarify, I meant "Yes, she did not take full responsibility for the things she said." in her apology.

A lot of the verbal attacking toward Katie comes from a knee-jerk reaction. People hear things like "welcome to America", etc. and automatically get defensive. I'm glad that Katie revealed her prejudices in an earnest way because she is being honest. She is sharing how she truly sees things. I really do think she wants to learn more and that is something. You can't expect everyone to know everything, but you can expect them to be open-minded and seek out information to educate themselves. I really do think the post was Katie's way to reach out and seek answers. That is why I was really disappointed with the way people responded to her.

How are prejudiced people supposed to get educated if they cannot reveal their what they think to others? Katie was just stating what was on her mind.

[Carol]

I agree that Katie showed her prejudice and superficial judgments (and possible xenophobic disdain for Asians who immigrated to the US and their subsequent American-born generations) in the utmost honest and open way. Ignorance has a tendency to be pretty honest. Good on her that she gets to speak her mind, I wish I could voice a fraction of the way I truly feel in a mainstream forum. I disagree that she did so to share, to learn, to reach out to the parents she was complaining about. I did not sense any true soul-searching in the follow-up post that acknowledged maybe, just maybe, what she wrote and the style in which she chose to express it were fundamentally offensive.

It is unfortunate that it got so personal, but fair or unfair - and given the context - she got what she gave.

[MJ]

I happened to have a window open on my internet browser of katie's original PTA post that I forgot to close... and now I see that it was taken off the SV blog. I hope it is ok to copy and paste it here (if not, delete it), since those who missed it are probably dying to read it. I do not have katie's follow up PTA post (IMO it's even more offensive than the original). Anyway, here it is...
--------

The Problem of the White PTA

I'm going out on a limb with this post. Please don't flame me too badly...

I was speaking with a neighbor (who attends a different elementary school in the district). She's Chinese, married to a white guy. She was complaining that her daughter wants to play with the daughter of one of the "Alpha Moms" at the school (you know her, PTA Vice President, Room Parent, matching Juicy Couture sweats – size 2 - even at 8:30 in the morning, etc., etc.), and this woman won't return her calls. She and her Alpha Mom friends don't invite my neighbor on their group walks after drop-off on Wednesday mornings, and she “dissed” my neighbor while collecting for the Teacher Gift. "Prejudice, obviously," she said. "All my Asian friends feel it."

My immediate thought was that she was over-reacting. After all, the Alpha Moms at our school don't invite *me* on their group walks, and I'm as un-ethnic as they come. And I happen to know the particular woman in question, and I just can’t see her as judging someone on their race. On their clothes, maybe, but that’s a different post…

But then I look at our elementary school. The kids are 25% Asian. The PTA is 90% white. Why?

So I started asking questions and this is what I heard:

“Our school is 50% Asian, but all the Asian parents do is complain. The white moms do all the work to keep the school going. They won’t join the PTA, they don’t come to the auctions, they don’t give money - Just complain that their children aren’t getting enough, when we do all the work.” (my friend from a different school)

“We’ve tried to get the Asians to join the PTA, and I agree with you, it’s a problem. There seems to be a cultural thing – they have no cultural background of participation in the school.” (our PTA past President)

“I don’t speak English very well – I don’t feel comfortable at the [PTA] meetings.” (my daughter’s friend’s Japanese mom)

“The moms and dads [in Asian families] both work, and they work hard – they move in with these extended families and it’s the grandparents who take care of the kids, and the grandparents don’t help the school.” (a school administrator)

In my own experience, I see all of these things. I helped organize Parking Lot Duty this year, which everyone hates but most people pitch in on. The foreign parents are universally flabbergasted that the school expects them to direct traffic (cultural - although to be fair, my sister who lives in New Jersey was flabbergasted as well). Several of the parents didn’t understand what I was asking (language). And, much as I hate to say it, the last few names, of parents who would not respond – not even to say no - despite repeated phone calls or emails, were all Asian. All of them. It got to the point where I just gave up without even trying - Oh, P. Fong's parents will never help, so why even bother.

I hate to see the way this is headed. This is how prejudice develops. “…well, she’s Asian, she’ll never help out or donate money…” How can school communities reach out to newcomers, Asian or whatever, to get the message across that there’s an expectation if your kids attend public school in California, you participate in it, financially and otherwise? And what is it that makes Asians feel unwelcome?

Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like the State of California is ever going to give the schools enough money to hire parking lot supervisors, art docents, PE teachers, or to purchase playground equipment, school supplies, or computers. The burden for these things is going to continue to fall on parents and parent fundraising activities. So how can we get the message out: Welcome to America, now write your check to the PTA and sign up for Hot Lunch duty!

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Posted by Katie Roper on June 06, 2007 at 01:14 PM in Katie | Permalink
------------

[MJ]

Actually, I lied. I clicked back on my browser on that page and realized I *DO* have katie's follow up post. I guess my kids distracting me from my computer time has come in handy after all, since I have a bad habit of keeping windows open, lol. For those who missed it, here it is...

----------
June 13, 2007
Grill Marks on my Butt

Well, I've never been flamed before. I've had people post mean comments, but never a full-blown flame-o-rama. It is interesting to be involved - a great learning experience. I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed (42 comments and counting - do I win the prize, Jill?)

My original post asked why our PTA is 90+% white despite a school population that is 30+% Asian. I knew I was going to have grill marks on my butt if I posted, but I see it as a big problem when the supposedly-representative Parent-Teacher Association only represents a portion of the student body. I'm pretty thick-skinned, and I thought I could take what I was going to get. And was I able to? Well...

Lesson #1: Everyone has something to contribute to you.

I got called some really horrible things. Racist was only the beginning. Strip away the invective, and there's gold in them thar hills (which I'll go into below). But folks...your message comes across more clearly if you don't prefix it by calling me "someone who never should have been allowed to procreate". That's hard to hear, especially because I'm trying really hard to fix the problem - or at least start a constructive discussion. Still, it is good practice for me to stay in conversation despite hearing things that I didn't want to hear - after all, that's why I posted in the first place. Talking to people who agree with you gets kind of boring, don't you think?

Lesson #2: There's potentially an inclusiveness problem with our PTA (and some others I could name)

It's not just Asian parents - there are many people who feel alienated from the Alpha Moms who run the PTA. I used to feel this way. But I try hard not to let things like what other people think of me stand in the way of doing what I think is best, and I really wanted to contribute to my daughter's school. So despite the fact that I wasn't one of the In Crowd, I offered to tackle some of the many things that needed to get done around the school. I took on some of the ones that no one wants to do, like lining up parents for Traffic Duty. And guess what? Within a year I was, if not one of the Alpha Moms, at least a strong Beta.

There are lots of people out there who get so turned off that they don't choose to participate. This is a long-term problem for the school. So the answer is for me to run for PTA Board and change things. But you know what? Those Alpha Moms spend 30 hours a week or more volunteering for the school. So next time you're heaping them with scorn, remember that those are the people collating your children's homework assignments, organizing class trips, leading PE classes (yes, all you non-Californians, the way we get PE in the school is to do it ourselves). And I'm trying to run a business and meet the new strict requirements for two posts a month to SV Moms - I just don't have time.

Lesson 3: There's still a problem with non-majority representation on volunteer boards.

It's not just whites and Asians (thanks, commenter Tim Sullivan!). Any time there's a school or community in transition, there's a lagging problem with getting adequate representation of the incoming minority in positions of leadership. Those of us in a position to do so need to work hard to get the newcomers involved, by reaching out to people we don't know, and who might not feel comfortable volunteering if not asked (Asian, white, or whatever).

But hey, if you're not involved in your community, get involved! Especially if it is your kids' school. So what you don't know anyone - if you help out, pretty soon you will. And you might even find out that some of those PTA moms are nice people.

Lesson 4: There's a growing problem with anti-Asian racism in many Peninsula school communities.

Not all, mind you. But I was surprised at how many similar comments I heard from white parents across many different schools. You can flame me again, and call me racist from now to Kingdom Come, but I'm telling you it is real, and I think it is growing. And while I may or may not be a racist myself, I hate to see it in my community. IMHO the start of a solution is to have a conversation, which gives us all a responsibility to address the issue like grown-ups rather than calling each other names.

Lesson 5: There's a huge problem with California schools

We all know this - but comments like some of the ones I got make me realize AGAIN how fortunate I am to live in a community where a lot of parents are able to donate time and money generously to their schools, and we should all think about donating some of our time and money to schools where few parents are in a position to give either.

Of course the real answer is to do away with Prop 13 and get our schools the property tax money they need (but I'm opening myself up to a whole new grilled butt with that one...).

And finally, a big lesson for us all - PLEASE DRIVE CAREFULLY IN THE SCHOOL PARKING LOT!

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Posted by Katie Roper on June 13, 2007 at 04:00 PM in Katie | Permalink
-------

[Angie in Texas]

thanks MJ,

now i need to take a moment, have a drink and mull this over before i go completely nuts.

=P

[Quizman]

MJ,

The problem of posting the followup without the comments from the first post make it a tad out of context. Consider the line "And finally, a big lesson for us all - PLEASE DRIVE CAREFULLY IN THE SCHOOL PARKING LOT!"

This seems to be in response to one of the comments in Post 1 where a mom asked why parents were needed to do parking lot duty in schools. Another parent stated the reasons for it. Now anyone reading Katie's sentence would assume an ulterior motive in a post loaded with references to race as it is. Imho, that is not the case.

Once again, there is a difference between insensitivity/ignorance and racism. I think Katie's Post #1 comes across as the former. I think while being *well-intentioned*, she made insensitive remarks. The irony was that she was seeking feedback from commentators. This was a golden opportunity to educate her, to take part in the discourse. I am afraid that we've lost the opportunity.

As an aside, it is also interesting that in the comments section of this blog as well as one more prominent one where this discussion is taking place, some folks have obviously gone to Ms. Roper's professional blog, found details of her background and made snide remarks on it (e.g. the comment on her Ivy league background).

When one points out prejudice by making references to *who* the poster instead of only focusing on *what* the poster said, then one's own prejudiced views comes across clearly. As we used to say in India, "Be careful while pointing your finger at someone else. When you do that, your own fingers - three of them - point back at you."

Have a good night!

[MJ]

Quizman-

I didn't post the comments, because I was under the impression that they were still available to be viewed on the SVM site. So, ppl are more than welcome to go to the original SVM site to view the comments from both of katie's posts, so they will be able to understand the context and decide for themselves how they feel about ALL of the posts. I simply posted katie's posts, since those are the ones that are no longer available on the SVM site, and it seems that there are ppl here who did not get a chance to read katie's posts (only the comments) before it was removed from the site, and couldn't understand the context by reading ONLY the comments.

MJ

[MJ]

OK, I went back and it looks like the comments from the katie's original PTA post might have been removed as well. So, for the sake of, "context" I'll post the comments too. Please don't kill me... I know it's SUPER long, but it seems like there are those who here who would be interested in reading it.

MJ

--------

Hmmmm….I’ve certainly seen the non-participating thing but I’ve never noticed it as a race thing. I’ve been an elementary school PTA prez for the last two years and so maybe that makes me an alpha-parent (but if you see me you’ll know I’m not wearing Juicy anything.) For us we say it’s the “usual suspects” over and over volunteering for jobs but really what I’ve noticed is that some people are “joiners” and some aren’t. The “joiners” come to a couple of meetings, sit in the back and eventually raise their hand to volunteer for something – we love them. Other people just don’t. Maybe they are shy, maybe they come from a culture for which it isn’t the norm to put your hand up and volunteer, maybe they volunteer a million hours at something else (e.g. church or whatever) or maybe they’re just unaware that there’s lots of work to be done. We found that making people aware of the needs, asking them directly for help and respecting that some people devote their energies to other things that are equally important helps keep us sane. We also drop things that don’t have volunteers. If we don’t have a newsletter editor, we drop it or usually someone misses it enough to step up. Don’t get me wrong, there are parents that drive me nuts – those are the ones with all the suggestions about what we can do better but somehow don’t find the time to help.

Posted by: teresag | June 12, 2007 at 09:04 AM

Wow, you are one big racist. Own up to it. Don't try to candy coat it with examples taht don't even make sense. You are someone who never should have been allowed to procreate. And you won't even get why I'm angry.... please, teach your children that everyone that isn't white, heterosexual, Christian(fill in the blank),... isn't worthy, doesn't care, (fill in the blank again because it doesn't really matter, does it?). I'm sending this over to the Asian American blogs. Have fun....live your life in the bubble

Posted by: Jen | June 11, 2007 at 11:37 PM

I guess my copy of 'How to be an American - required reading for new immigrants' must have fallen out of my visa package before it was sent to me!

Posted by: Cathy | June 10, 2007 at 02:03 PM

When in Rome, do as the Romans. No matter what the "comfort level" or "cultural sensitivity" level of anyone..you're HERE now.
This extends to all issues. Keep ones own culture (proudly.. as my husbands family does.) however, you're in America now.

Posted by: stephv | June 10, 2007 at 11:45 AM

Working with PTOs and PTAs everyday in my role as founder of PTO Today magazine, I find this discussion fascinating. In many ways it's a fill-in-the-prominent-non-majority-group-here kind of discussion that take splace whether there's a large Hispanic or Asian or African populace at your school.

The fact that the discussion take splace with all minority races tells us that it's not about being Asian or Hispanic or African-American. It's much more about comfort and tradition.

Comfort = do i feel like I fit in and am I comfortable with the group that seems in control of the parent volunteering? The responsibility for actually being welcoming and -- often overlooked and much harder -- being seen as welcoming falls to the parent group.

The tradition element was referred to above where -- for many cultures -- parent volunteering at schools isn't a part of the school experience. In some cultures, parents wouldn't think of making suggestions to or helping out the teachers, as it would be the equivalent of suggesting your which vein your surgeon should clamp first. Etcetera.

The powerful thing we know now is that research proves conclusively that involved parents strongly help their own children and their entire school. Great goal to find common ground with all cultures and build a broader and broader community of support around our schools.

Tim Sullivan
www.ptotoday.com
www.back2school2007.com

Posted by: Tim Sullivan | June 09, 2007 at 06:15 PM

I don't want to even dig into the whole race issue in this post yet, but re. the traffic duty thing (so much easier to deal with): I had a friend in K who was killed as she was crossing the parking lot to get to her mom's car by another mother picking up one of her children. After that tragedy, my elementary school instituted very strict pick up and drop off rules. Parents were required to volunteer to do traffic duty - direct parents, make sure kids crossed the street safely, etc. The teachers all wait outside with their class on the lawn out front to make sure they don't run into the street. It may be a pain, bit it sure as hell is worth it.

Posted by: Nina | June 08, 2007 at 09:21 PM

Why don't the kids ride the bus? Because buses in most districts went bye-bye when prop 13 led to belt-tightening and haven't been seen in a generation or more. But of course, the schools weren't designed for streams of parents dropping off their kids; hence traffic problems are huge. (Yeah, next question, why don't the kids walk or bike? Well, they do quite a bit in my current district, but in our last district we had regionalized (not neighborhood) elementary schools with no sidewalks or bike lanes anywhere around, so even kids who lived close enough to walk couldn't. In this district we do have a small (think airport parking van) shuttle that does one run through the town to the middle school each way; if a kid does manage to squeeze on in the a.m. there's no guarantee that he'll make it through the crush in the p.m.; if he doesn't manage to squeeze on in the a.m. he will be seriously late since it arrives only moments before school starts.

Posted by: Tekla Nee | June 08, 2007 at 06:08 PM

I've worked full time since my kids were born and as a recent SAHM this conversation is especially interesting.

In my former life I worked with/volunteered at a local organization www.projectcornerstone.org that addressed engaging parent volunteers in schools. What we found was that people volunteered when asked and when there was a personal connection. So when folks have limited time and limited connection with school, they volunteer for things that are tangible and easy to take on. They volunteer when they see peers do it, when the purpose is clear and when they are asked by someone who is sincere.

We engaged mono-lingual spanish speaking women to volunteer to read books in classrooms and teach lessons about the hispanic cultures. This spurred the Asian women to want to have books about Vietnamese, Chinese and Indian cultures to be read. This in turn, inspired Muslim women and others who wanted to be involved in their children's school, but didn't want to be on the fundraising committee.

Ultimately, it resulted in completely diversifying and changing the landscape of what people thought about volunteers in San Jose schools. These women were all amazing and just needed to be asked, not ignored. Schools are seeing these women are resources, not people to be ignored, which is what it seems this poster's school is doing.

As an Filipina mom, I've never come across racism at school becuase of my color/culture. It makes me feel great to have chosen a school, where the adminstrators, teachers and parents would never attribute a lack of volunteers to something like this.

Posted by: SheilaBD | June 08, 2007 at 04:39 PM

Public schools in California CANNOT have mandatory $$ requirements. Your school may say that and may try to force you to pay. But public schools are required to have FREE education. If push comes to shove, they cannot force you fork over money for anything. Honest to goodness. If you put up a big enough fight or went to the district office, you would not have to pay.

With education funding the way that it is, it doesn't suprise me that schools are trying to man handle the parents into paying for what the government does not. That said, it is still illegal. If you started asking questions, I'm sure your school officials would start back pedaling and change their tune.

Posted by: BirdieRoark | June 08, 2007 at 03:26 PM

I'm too shocked about the idea of a volunteer "traffic coordinator". WTH? Don't kids, like, ride the bus?

This post alone, just thinking about PTAs and alpha moms and not volunteering enough is just about enough to drive me to homeschool. :P

Posted by: silvermine | June 08, 2007 at 02:45 PM

Response to Tekla:

Public Schools do have mandatory donations. I've heard of 2 who have over $3000/child/year. And my sister's children goes to a public school (not a charter or magnet school or in any way special) where there is mandatory volunteering and if you don't show up, then you are fined money --- this is in addition to the regular mandatory donation money/year. And the parents do just pony up the money. Now I don't know if all this is legal, but I know that it is being done.

Posted by: YinYangQi | June 08, 2007 at 12:35 PM

I also thank the author for opening up the discussion. I agree with Tekla's comment. It is important for power cliques to be inclusive. I think it is threatening for some.
I was on the PTO last year for my son's school and I know they were happy to take time from anyone who wanted to volunteer - because we need lots of parent involvement. I think it is hardest for working parents to find the time (me being one of them, I struggle with that all the time). Maybe they should have separate sign-ups for working parents that don't involve participation during the workday.

Posted by: Beth B. | June 08, 2007 at 11:30 AM

Hey, I think everyone should go see "Avenue Q"- A Tony award winning show coming to SF in the fall. It offends all people and is unabashed about it, mocks the PC world in which we live and is funny. It involves "R rated" muppets-so don't take the kids. Can't we all just get along?

Posted by: stephv | June 08, 2007 at 09:45 AM

My responses to the responses, in no particular order:

There is no way a public school can have a mandatory donation; if this is a magnet school and they're using this as a criteria to select kids, they are waayyy over the line.

I could have written this post a number of years ago when I was in a different school district but called it the problem of the blonde PTA, really, the clique seemed that tight.

When it seems a certain type of folks are running the school, yeah, other types figure why bother. The burden I think should be on the power clique to be inclusive; the school I'm at now does it well, but everyone could probably do better. I recall making calls for auction donations one year and convincing a mostly spanish speaking mom that an offering to cook an authentic mexican dinner would be huge and raise a big chunk of money for the school; she was surprised and happy to realize she had something to contribute.

The author was brave to post this knowing there was no way she could phrase it without coming off as racist, no way to be politically correct enough, yet it was something worth talking about and she got it out there and opened up an amazing discussion, and I thank her.

Posted by: Tekla Nee | June 08, 2007 at 08:02 AM

You're making gross overgeneralizations based on a few anecdotes. It's like saying "blonde women are dumb" or "girls are bad at math".

Maybe Asians don't join the PTA because it's already a clique where they don't feel they will be welcome. I've seen plenty of PTA moms who all dress the same, are the same height, have the same hairstyle. If you looked different from these folks, let alone grew up with a completely different background even if you grew up in the US, wouldn't you feel intimidated by joining this club too? It's akin to being the outsider among the popular girls in high school.

Maybe Asian women would like to participate more and be more involved, but they cannot afford to stay at home. I suspect there is a disproportionate number of working mothers among Asian women then among Caucasian women.

If this is really an issue that concerns you, I encourage you to change the tone of your message to be more bridge-building and conciliatory. How can the PTA make Asians feel more welcome? What are the barriers to getting Asian families more involved in the local schools?

Posted by: NotAWhiteMom | June 08, 2007 at 02:54 AM

Perhaps Asian moms don't volunteer because they feel that their contribution is to raise the average test score for the school and that is sufficient. Oh, I'm just kidding! I'm an Asian mom whose child has been known to get the occasional B and I don't even punish her.

Posted by: Penasianmom | June 08, 2007 at 01:55 AM

A few of the commentators thought that the post was not racist. I'm shocked, but I guess I shouldn't be. Lots of Americans thought it was okay to intern the Japanese-Amreicans in concentration camps during World War II also. The reason the post is racist is because it lumps all people from a certain ethnic group (in this case: Asians) and applies a negative stereotype to them: mainly none of them volunteer at school or donate money to schools. And that is clearly not true or I shouldn't know so many Asian Moms who work their tails off volunteering at their children's schools. I know 3 Asian Moms who have been auction chairperson at each of their schools. Another Asian Mom heads all the English Book Fair Sales. Then there is the Asian Mom who heads up the year book committee for her son's school. And as for myself (yes, I'm Asian), the other kindergarten teacher (meaning not my son's teacher) has borrowed me to do her class's parent liason work, bringing in speakers, field trip organization, new parent welcoming, etc. for her class too. So clearly, in Silicon Valley there are a lot of Asian Parents volunteering at their children's schools.

Also Asian Parents do donate money to their schools. An OB/GYN doctor (who is also an Asian Parent whom I know) does not have the time to volunteer at her children's school, so she just donates lots of money (whatever the school charges her) to the schools.

I don't know what school Katie's children go to, but she wrote about PTA cliques & Alpha Moms. Before blaming a race for poor parent participation, perhaps the PTA should look into breaking the clique behaviours. People don't like to volunteer if they are going to be treated like inferiors. PTA's need to be warm and welcoming to everyone (white, asian, indian, middle-Eastern, rich, poor, middle class, etc --- you get the picture).

And lastly to get really good parent participation, schools also need to get the message across to all parents that they REQUIRE parent participation. The school needs to explain all the monetary and time donations they expect from each family BEFORE the child enters the school --- actually before the parents apply for the child to go to that school. So parents who know they don't want to spend that money or time can choose to go to another school.

I know a public school here that has a mandatory $3600/child/year donation, and they have 100% parent participation. They tell parents up front about this mandatory donation before the parent even fills out the application to the school. And because this school is a good school, there is a waitlist a mile long at this school even with this high mandatory donation.

At my son's school, you either volunteer or you pay about $2-3K more per year per child. So pretty much every family volunteers in one way or another. In addition to that, we have "school work days" where an adult representative from each family has to show up and work at the school (mostly cleaning, maintenance, painting buildings, etc.) for 1 Saturday/year. The workday is actually not a draconian event. We all work together, bring a dish & have a potluck lunch together. While the parents work, the kids play with each other & do a little work too. It is actually rather fun: while you paint the school's newest container with other parents you get to know the other parents better. Everyone jokes around and has a good time. And there are no gathering of cliques. School Workdays have about 99% family participation --- partly because there is a $300 fine attached with missing a work day. (The other 1% of families just can't make it to a workday and make other arrangements for how they can help out the school in lieu of workday.)

So Katie, I hope your future posts will avoid stereotyping a certain group of people. It is not helpful and is very divisive. As for your school, get the PTA to become warm and welcoming (instead of cliquey & perhaps condescending), have the school educate the parents (in their own languages is best) the school's expectation about parental monetary & time donation and make it mandatory. If your school is good enough, your parents won't flee from it and will pick up the slack. Good Luck!

Posted by: YinYangQi | June 07, 2007 at 11:15 PM

KateSanford, in my limited experience with Ukranian parents, they've been fine contributors at class potlucks. But are we sure we *want* the Asians directing traffic for Parking Lot Duty?

Posted by: Chi | June 07, 2007 at 10:06 PM

Holy cats! Your post really surprises me. I might be considered one of the "Alpha Moms" (though I've never have, and never will, wear that Juicy stuff). I have never had the experience that involved, or non-involved, parents come from a certain race.

Really, in all of my years of volunteering at schools (it's been 9 years now) what I have seen is - most parents do what they can. For some families - just getting the kids to school every day is an accomplishment. Other families have the financial ability, or time, to contribute more.

This stuff bugs me. Finger pointing and self-congratulating is why the "Alpha Moms" get a bad name. Not all of us are like that. I volunteer because I have the time, and because it is what I love to do. I don't think that makes me better than anyone else.

By the way, anyone who thinks that parking lot duty isn't necessary - spend a morning at the drop-off at any public elementary school. Parking lot duty is a good thing!

Posted by: Deb | June 07, 2007 at 09:16 PM

"Ukranian parents, on the other hand, seem to have an almost genetic predisposition to slack off on class potlucks. Has anybody else noticed this?"

I bet you $10 that at least one commentator will miss the sarcasm. :-)

Posted by: Quizman | June 07, 2007 at 01:30 PM

Oops. Let me be clearer. I like Katie. I like her posts. However, in the past few years, there has been a culture of finger-pointing that I think has started to feel like the norm. It has now become common to float a hypothesis that's fairly prejudicial, and then just justify it. As someone who listens to a lot of public radio, with their cultured tones and pedantic approach, I find this slapstick approach to be a shortcut to divisiveness.

BTW, I have no problem with asian parents. Ukranian parents, on the other hand, seem to have an almost genetic predisposition to slack off on class potlucks. Has anybody else noticed this?

Posted by: katesanford | June 07, 2007 at 01:24 PM

First, I appreciate the openness to social learning that the author of the original post has and the willingness to learn more about reaching out to the Asian community at her school.

Several things struck a nerve with me about the post.

In general it really bugs me when folks who think they aren't using race to judge other people rationalize it with, "Oh, I have a friend/colleague/neighbor/florist who is __________ and we get along great." I have heard that type of deal A LOT, particularly after someone asks me what my background is (mixed Asian/Caucasian).

I sense that in the initial part of the blog entry there is a different underlying and probably subconscious message--Because my friend who is Asian and I were walking together and she felt comfortable enough with me to confide in her feelings of being judged based on race, I have to find out more to defend my notion that the royal "we" in the school parenting community who happen to be White really don't have blanket feelings about Asian parents at school. She shouldn't feel dissed that the Alpha mom won't give her the time of day....Alpha PTA mom is just like that. But then after speaking with others, she realizes there are blanket opinions by some prominent members of the school--and apparently her surrounding friendships. If the perception is that widespread then of course some of the Asian parents will feel it.

I'd see the need in that school community as really needing to focus on school-wide parenting community building. Seems like the attitude of and about the clique is the barrier to getting a more cohesive volunteer pool working together at the school since that is also widespread. Heck, I won't vounteer with certain people again because I've been burned by the experience. If the experience is a negative one, folks won't want to repeat it. Period.

I think focus groups and well done surveys (ie not loaded questions written by the alphas) work well to gain insight and lead to further discussions and activities to build better relationships in the community. It involves a lot of work done in a transparent process that can get heated at times, but can really change the tone of the environment if done well. And of course, someone would need to volunteer to spearhead the effort...knowing full well how the Alphas are likely to respond. Good luck recruiting for that position!

There are great nonprofits in the area that would know folks who could start that type of dialogue/discussion/process. www.compasspoint.org would be a starting point for some technical assistance and they might even have a volunteer willing to do it.

And about the reliance on volunteers to cover the funding deficits of area schools, we have a role to play in that larger discussion too. My take is that it really needs to be resolved structurally. Californians need to resolve the fallout from Prop 13 in a workable way. And I'm not talking passing new bond measures every 5 years...but that is another topic.

I'm happy to be in a different school where there isn't a sense of Asian parent exclusion. There are many others in the area and lots of very active, diverse parent volunteer communities.

Posted by: Happa-mamma | June 07, 2007 at 01:16 PM

I just read this because I was sent the link by the most involved, motivated, organized mother in our class. Asian, BTW.

She is utterly flabbergasted. And so am I.

IMHO this type of approach really follows some of the nasty things that have happened in our culture in the past few years, when divisive, hate-mongering right-wing radio types (and Newt and his buddies) (and others) set out to pitch American against American.

Let's look at the entire approach. What could have happened, versus what did happen.

Typically, a responsible columnist or a responsible member of the community would use some form of diplomacy to discuss this topic. This type of topic has many levels. At the first level, you could say that there are different levels of involvement in the PTA. Secondly, you could say that these levels seem to be determined by two things: the culture of the parent, and the culture of exclusion practiced by "alpha parents" in the silicon valley. You could ask which factor is responsible for alienating more parents?

This is an extremely valid thing to discuss. And BTW, "asian" nowadays is such a difficult way to clump people. My Korean friends are different from my Chinese friends, and so forth.

Regardless of the poster's personal experience with the irritating family next door (and their ethnicity), or the irritating people in her class, the fact remains that we live in a very multi-racial world. The minute that the poster went down the nasty, dripping rat-hole that is "and the asian parents don't support schools because of XYZ," the post lost credibility and just became an ugly expose of someone trying to cloak their own prejudices in validating garb.

What do I mean by prejudice? Well, you have obviously experienced some asian parents who blow off what you think is important. THEREFORE THERE MUST BE A TREND.

I don't buy it.
I am embarrassed by it.
I am sorry for it.

Furthermore, I have experienced the artful vitriol that is competitive overachievement in silicon valley mommyhood and it makes me throw up. Perhaps the parents of whom you speak just find the entire "look!! I'm on a hampster wheel and I look PERFECT and little Jeannette can dance ballet and sing and do piano and speak Spanish and SHE'S ONLY THREE! Now if you'll excuse me I need to go and organize the nonprofit auction for my school with my totally with-it friends" to be incredibly, stultifyingly boring and stupid.

Like the question asks: "When you're lying on your deathbed, will you wish that you spent more time trying to impress the bitchy alpha mommies in the PTA? Or will you wish that you'd spent more time with your child and your family and your friends?"

Posted by: katesanford | June 07, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Yep to HCG. I am an accomplished womyn, dammit and will organize that cupcake sale on my spreadsheet while wearing cashmere!

Posted by: stephv | June 07, 2007 at 01:10 PM

Parking lot duty is ridiculous. My parents response would be, "I pay all of these property taxes for the schools and you expect me to do THAT???" That is not a cultural observation, it's a common sense one. You pay for services rendered.

I grew up in rich town with nationally recognized public school system on the East Coast. My mom did her part but frankly as we got older we all got busier with our extracurriculars. It happens.

And if I may say something potentially offensive --- it was in her experience that many of these super involved to-the-point-of-borderline-bully-PTA-types in our town were very frustrated people who didn't have any other creative outlet in their lives. She didn't see the point in ingratiating herself any more than was necessary. That's not cultural either -- that's also a common sense.

Posted by: HCG | June 07, 2007 at 12:51 PM

Check out this post from ARP (also reposted at Kimchi Mamas and the blogger's own blog) for some more food for thought about attitudes and expectations:

http://www.antiracistparent.com/2007/06/01/moms-night-out/

Talking about racism or racist attitudes does not have to "shut down" discussion--we shouldn't be afraid of saying the word, we just have to understand it.

Posted by: daddy in a strange land | June 07, 2007 at 12:11 PM

Btw, the 'Welcome to America'* part was unnecessary. Not all non-whites are first gen migrants. I'm sure amongst the 25% "Asian" demographic, quite a few of them must've been 2nd or 3rd gen.

* This greeting caused great angst in the Indian community when the idiot senator from Virginia George 'Macaca' Allen uttered those words to an American, yes, American, of Indian heritage.
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004437.html

Posted by: Quizman | June 07, 2007 at 11:18 AM

I think questioning the lack of civic participation by a certain segment of society is valid and is *not* racist. [The comments that Katie quoted as "reasons" could be construed as such and imho, that was her intention as she plainly stated, but the broader topic needs to be discussed.] If this subject was taboo, many studies within universities would not have been done on this topic. See:
PDF
http://www.russellsage.org/publications/workingpapers/Race%20Neighborhood%20Poverty%20and%20Participation%20in%20Voluntary%20Associations/document

PDF
http://www.roosevelt.edu/ima/pdfs/civic.pdf [See Page 9]

Let us not throw the R word lightly. Katie is trying to be proactive and actively seek greater participation by non-whites, isn't she?

That said, imho, the term "Asian" is silly. I grew up in India, and for me, the word "Asian" meant anyone originating from the region between and including Japan & Turkey. In the US, the term "Asian" means "East Asian"**. Even this segment comprises of at least 2 billion people from scores of countries, multiple economic and social backgrounds, and (and often conflicting) cultures. One really cannot indulge in generalities. I think we need to be specific.

**That's part of the reason why a lot of Iranians (Persians) tick "White" in the race column in forms, and why Indians select "Other". Talk about confusion!

Posted by: Quizman | June 07, 2007 at 11:07 AM

I haven't noticed this trend at all at my daughter's school, but she attends a private school so maybe that is why. I'd guess the school is 30% Asian (including Indian), some recent immigrants, some US born. And many of them are very involved in the school at all levels. In fact, the parents I can think of who can never be bothered to do anything are all white.

However, I think some of the commenters are being a bit hard on the original poster. I don't think by simply raising the issue she is being racist in any way. She noticed this trend at her school, her Asian freind feels some subtle racism, and she is wondering why this is happening and how it can be changed. Perhaps there are cultural aspects at work - can we not discuss these things? I hate to see meaningful discussion silenced by cries of "racism" - that is not productive for anyone.

Posted by: Michelle | June 07, 2007 at 10:40 AM

Gosh, I just read the ALL the comments for the first time and checked out the links.

Chi, I will make sure we add Anti Racist Parent Blog to our blogroll. Thank you for sharing that.

First, I am overly sensitive to racism. I am white (I burn looking at the sun white) Jew. Growing up, I would always hear, "Gosh, you don't LOOK Jewish" ... blonde, blue eyed, small nose Jew. My response has always been:
1. So what does a Jew look like?
2. Do you mean because I have a blonde hair and blue eyes, I don't look Jewish? Oh yeah, the rest of "us" were killed in World War 2... my relatives were the "lucky" ones to escape!
3. (This is my favorite) Really? I thought all Jews look just like ME! You know... small nose and all.....

Let me state this now... I am white. I am Caucasian. I am pale and I burn within seconds of being out in the sun.... and I have yet to volunteer with our PTA. I would rather volounteer in my daughter's classroom... and I work. I can only give so much time to the school, and I pick what I can do very carefully.

I believe those who can give, give... those who can't, give in other ways. Singling out ANY group is racist. PTA's and the school system should encourage families to volunteer and do what they can, but not expect everyone can or will (or can) help with the PTA. Most schools in SV are fortunate to have parent volunteers.... but we should NOT expect our parents to keep giving. I understand that this what makes the school "even better" and I am very grateful to the parents who can give, and give and give......

But they do this by choice.....

And maybe our expectations of the PTA/PTO are out of whack!

I agree that the underlying tone of this post is racist. It hit's every "racist" nerve in my body... and I would hope that what come's out of this post is that singling out any group (jewish, african american, asian, indian....) is hurtful.

I also think that as a society, we need to really look out how we treat eachother. There are SO MANY reasons why different ethnic groups don't pariticpate in the PTA or any group..... showing compassion and trying to be sensitive to the root problems will go furthur than singling them out here....

just my two or ten cents....

Posted by: Jill | June 07, 2007 at 10:08 AM

Wow, I have to say I find this offensive on so many levels. This post makes a negative association with race - namely that people who look Asian and have Asian-sounding last names don't volunteer or contribute financially to our schools. Then it extends that attitude about race to exclusionary behavior - namely, you're not going to bother calling us for Parking Duty.

Race is a poor excuse for understanding the root cause of the issue of non-participation. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that racial attributions are a cheap answer to something that people really don't want to deal with. After all, race is immutable - so how can you be responsible for fixing whatever the problem is?

I immigrated to the U.S. as a small child and learned English from Sesame Street. There were many reasons my mom wasn't a PTA mom, and I feel *fortunate* to be able volunteer at my kids' school. Nearly all my mom friends, both Asian and non-Asian, *do* volunteer, so I can tell you first hand that your race-based assumptions simply don't hold up.

So I urge you to dig deeper beyond the shallowness of race. What are the real underlying concerns of non-participating parents at your school? Have you noticed that working parents volunteer less than non-working parents? Do moms with small children volunteer less? Are there language barriers? Financial pressures? Is your PTA clique-y? Do friends recruit friends? What are the values and behaviors of the current leaders of your PTA organization?

Looking beyond skin-color and funny last names will help you get to some truer answers about why some people don't volunteer. And if you really want Mrs. Fong to volunteer, maybe you could chat with her at pick-up time or invite her to coffee. Assume she cares about her kids as much as you care about yours - and that she's not just sitting home eating bon-bons and watching Chinese soap-operas. Volunteering and community-building go hand in hand.

My last comment is that this article makes a lot of racist assertions attributed to some of your unnamed friends. That's a bit like a company saying, "We don't hire people of color because some of our customers don't like Black/Asian/Hispanic people." Just because other people have racist beliefs doesn't make them valid - and quoting such things is passing the buck.

If you're looking for inclusion and common ground, empathy and compassion are good places to start. Have you ever tried to walk into a group with stranger with whom you have little in common? Worked with men who had certain assumptions about you and your gender? Struggled financially? Felt shy or self-conscious? Are there personal experiences you can draw on to better understand why it might be difficult for some people to get involved?

Jill and Pamela, how about including a link to the Anti-Racist Parent blog (http://www.antiracistparent.com) in the "Blogs We Like" listing? I'm so blown away by the racial stereotyping and negative attribution here that I sent a link to this post to ARP - I hope they'll respond, too.

Posted by: Chi | June 07, 2007 at 09:14 AM

"I hate to see the way this is headed. This is how prejudice develops."

It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy - the prejudice is ALREADY THERE. Yes, for SOME Asian families, if they are recent immigrants, there may be a language issue with the parents. But are you saying that EVERY Asian parent in your school is a recent immigrant? That ALL have the same "Confucian" culture? I don't know the makeup of your school, but "Asian" cultures (plural) are not all uniform by any means, even within the same country...

Could it just possibly be that the people "trying" to enlist Asian parents are doing so in such a condescending way that it's an immediate turnoff? Or that the low expectations of the PTA person mean that they get exactly what they expected - nothing? Even if there is a language barrier, TONE and BODY LANGUAGE are easily connoted. Did anyone from the PTA bother to get an older child or adult as an interpreter to explain why the PTA is needed? Do they ask for any help other than money?

"Welcome to America" is an immediate turnoff - even in jest, it comes across as arrogant and superior. If you or anyone else is thinking that, trust me that other parents have noticed it.

Really, I must have missed the part of the US Constitution where Parent-Teacher Organizations are mandated? One-room schoolhouses with a PTA selling cornbread in the back? If public schools are not uniform (and of course they aren't the same in method of funding, ethnic/economic makeup, regional needs, physical structure, class size), why should support structures be the same?

Explain what the PTA is and does, and why it's worth supporting, instead of assuming that everyone should know that already, and maybe you'll get the help you're looking for.

And maybe your friend will get the respect she deserves.

Posted by: Lyonside | June 07, 2007 at 08:00 AM

Off topic a tad-the public schools need competition. Vouchers? Something..They have a monopoly on "educating" our kids (some may say social engineering.) The teaching of "socially/culturally sensitive issues"(nod heads appropriately) and teacher training in the same has gotten in the way of education-hence our abysmal test scores in many locations. The disparity in schools is astounding and unfair. Its easy to be a mega supporter of the public "system" when you live in a high tax bracket neighborhood. The "system" is a bloated, bureaucratic, PC infused shipwreck of inequality to all-except the rich.

Posted by: stephv | June 07, 2007 at 07:13 AM

I expect that this quote is your problem right here.

"How can school communities reach out to newcomers, Asian or whatever, to get the message across that there’s an expectation if your kids attend public school in California, you participate in it, financially and otherwise?"

You make public school sound like private school. And I'll bet that plenty of parents, not just Asians or "foreigners," think that they can send their kids to school and the state will do the job of educating them and the won't have to fundraise or volunteer because it's a PUBLIC school.

Having taught in a low-income public school where 2% of the school was white, getting each family to donate $5 (yes, just $5) to the school was difficult. I sure wish the parents at the school in the post above would take a field trip out of PA and visit some other schools to see how bad things could be. Personally I don't blame any of those Asian parents for not wanting to join committees with people who make the kind of asinine statements I read above? Not a cultural thing to participate in school? That's rich. What a bubble some people live in. I'm literally shaking my head.

When the PTA of my kid's new public school (the school where she'll be attending K in the fall) stood up at parents' night and pretty much demanded that all families contribute $500, my husband and I looked at each other and thought, "How effing presumptous." It's not even about the money, it's about the expectation. I know I am not required to give $500 to my kids' school, but it would be nice, right? Well, quite frankly, I'd rather give my $500 to the school where I previously taught. Or to schools that *really* need the funds. Imagine if the needy schools got the $500 per family and the PA schools got the $5.

My husband and I do work. As a result, we won't be those parents you see volunteering the classroom everyday. I'll probably be one of those parents that only attends the required meetings. Why? Maybe because I've seen how bad public schools can really get. And I don't think complaining about how Asians don't help enough is going to solve any problems. Instead of complaining why don't you all take some paper, pencils, and art supplies over to the neediest elementary schools in our immediate area. I'd be happy to provide a list.

Posted by: Stefania/CityMama | June 07, 2007 at 05:20 AM

It seems to be true in our school in SJ. Most of our Asian families do not attend any school functions or work in the classroom. The Spanish speaking parents are more involved, but sort of in a parallel way. There has been a lot of work to align the three groups but it has just never caught on with the Asians.

Posted by: Sue | June 06, 2007 at 08:37 PM

Related article:
http://www.modelminority.com/printout36.html

==
For Yu, the Potomac mother of three, the path to activism was excruciating. At first, she found the concept of the PTA unfathomable. "In the Confucian culture, educators are the utmost authority," Yu said. "You just turn your children over to them."

=

Posted by: Quizman | June 06, 2007 at 04:35 PM

Thanks for raising this issue. My wife and I have frequently touched on this topic. On why this topic is important:
http://homes.wsj.com/buysell/markettrends/20051123-hwang.html

=
Hung Wei, a Chinese-American living in Cupertino, has become an active campaigner in the community, encouraging Asian parents to be more aware of their children's emotional development. Ms. Wei, who is co-president of Monta Vista's PTA with Ms. Gatley, says her activism stems from the suicide of her daughter, Diana. Ms. Wei says life in Cupertino and at Monta Vista didn't prepare the young woman for life at New York University. Diana moved there in 2004 and jumped to her death from a Manhattan building two months later.
==

Perhaps, SVMOM's blog could interview women like her or ask her to contribute a guest article on this topic.

Posted by: Quizman | June 06, 2007 at 04:32 PM

I would be interested to know if this is also an issue with non-American 'whites'? I grew up in the UK and there was no parent participation in any of my schools. We are looking at Kindergarten in 2008 so are starting to think about schools. It came as a great shock to me to find that I would be 'expected' to help out in the classroom and/or with other administration of the school. Parking Lot Duty? WTF?

The post also alluded to another point, lots of us work! I have no idea whether there is a greater percentage of expat and non-white parents who go out to work or no difference. However, if you add this to a lack of a cultural background in participating in school activities you are looking at a population skewed in favour of stay at home parents who grew up with this sort of thing, from which to choose your PTA participants.

Posted by: Cathy | June 06, 2007 at 03:35 PM

Why don't you direct this to KimchiMama, if you dare, and see what she says.

Posted by: Robin | June 06, 2007 at 02:55 PM

We're not in public schools yet in our area, (suburbs of Portland, Oregon) but we're in a neighborhood and a community that is heavily Asian, so it will be interesting to see in the coming years whether what you're finding down there in SV is true up here in the Silicon Forest, as well.

Posted by: Kristi | June 06, 2007 at 02:37 PM

I can't wait to see what other readers think of this post. My daughters are not yet in elementary school but I'm wondering where I'll fit in since I'm caucasian, as is my five year old, and my beautiful three year old is from China.

Posted by: Amy | June 06, 2007 at 01:52 PM

great post. good to get the discussion going. i haven't experienced this yet but i like to see it discussed...

Posted by: Sarah Eisner | June 06, 2007 at 01:43 PM

The comments to this entry are closed.

[Majong]

Katie's words/thoughts/whatever you call them are just all around full of ignorance, hate, entitlement, and unfortunately common. Yes, it's infuriating and scary, especially for me as a parent- the thought of my children having to directly experience such ugliness sends chills up my spine. The fact is the PTA is an integral part of the American school system. It has also grown to be a place to exercise power, popularity, and lots of ego-stroking...this is not to negate all the time and energy parents actually do invest in bettering their school environment, but the whole cutlure of PTAs has become so political. All parents should know that they have a voice and can freely exercise this voice when they experience alienation, hatred (can't think of a better way to describe these experiences), especially in their public school. By not responding you're contributing to the problem and perpetuating the stereotype of the quiet model minority. On another note, I am in an area where we have many overseas Chinese families studying here and they are not as involved because that type of parental involvement is not the norm for them. My parents never attended PTA meetings, they worked all the time and trusted that their children were receiving whatever they needed to learn from our public schools. They valued education but not parental involvement with the schools. Asian women raised in the states are culturally so different from generations that immigrated here- isn't that why so many of us are married to white men???? That's probably a topic to discuss.