Open Thread Thursday

What's on your mind today?

Comments

[Diana]

Finally planning my daughter's Tol party. I am so excited and nostalgic. I remember first finding this site when I was pregnant and learning about some of the customs and traditions. The future seemed so far off and I couldn't even imagine the baby's first year birthday. Time goes so quickly and my little tiny baby girl is now a very busy walking and talking toddler.

Thanks again for all of the advice and support you guys have handed out over the last year and a half! Although I am mostly a lurker lately, I am always around because you guys never fail to leave me smiling and laughing.

[Manaoin]

Hi - I posted this last week but not sure if you all saw it. Sorry for the repost but I still need some help!

To start, here is a little information on me/us. I am 1/2 Chinese 1/2 Spanish and my husband is 100% Korean from Long Island. Both of his parents are deceased and he has 2 older sisters and 1 older brother.
My daughter's first birthday is coming up in September and EVERYONE (siblings, aunties, etc...) is flying in for it (we live in Seattle).

I am pretty sure that his family members are expecting her birthday celebration to contain a few of the traditional things that a dol is supposed to have. I am pretty clueless though. I have been doing research and have an idea...but still pretty clueless.

As I mentioned earlier, I am half Chinese and Spanish. I was raised in Taiwan/Okinawa and definitely identify with my Asian upbringing. I speak to my daughter in Chinese and am hoping (fingers crossed) that I'll be able to teach my daughter about being bi-cultural. My other issue is RELIGION! I am a practicing Buddhist (born and raised) and my husband practices with me. His family are very devout Catholics. When we were preparing everything for our wedding the aunties were very upset that we were not having a Catholic ceremony, not being married by a priest and not getting married in the church. To keep peace we let my husband's oldest sister say a short prayer after our Buddhist ceremony was completed. The other day we had a bbq at our house and an auntie came over. She was very upset that we did not say the Lord's prayer before we ate. (!!!)

The American girl in me wants to tell everyone to mind their own business. When we are at their houses we always pray with the family, but why is it expected that we do it in our home when we are Buddhists? The Asian girl in me says to do whatever my elders want...

BTW - my husband doesn't care either way. He's pretty laid back about everything. He's the baby of the family too. I am the oldest in my family and since we have gotten married I definitely feel the pressure from his family to make sure he does all the right things.

My biggest problems are: 1) What should be included at a dol without going over the top and without putting myself in debt? 2)Where do I find these items?

I did check out the 'dol' section of this site but wasn't able to find much to help me in my search of where to locate things like the towers of fake sweets.

Please help!

Thank you!

[rw]

Has anyone seen the movie "Never Forever"? I think it premiered at Sundance a few weeks ago... It's about an interracial couple (Korean-American husband, white wife) who can't get pregnant. The woman decides to have an affair with another Korean-American man to get pregnant, then tell her husband that the baby is his.
I haven't seen it yet, but as a white woman engaged to a Korean-American man, I was pleased to see that the movie at least portrayed an interracial relationship like ours (rather than the ubiquitous Asian woman-white man couple).

[The Wrong MJ]

Manaoin,

I empathize with your religious struggles. I am taiwanese american, DH is korean american, and his family is catholic (it is rare that I run into anyone else who is korean catholic). The reason we had a catholic wedding was because my mil would have had a heart attack if we didn't do it. We even had our oldest son baptized (at the time I was kind of apathetic about religion and DH was still gung ho at the time about our kids being catholic), all of this was basically to keep mil happy. My mil had even lied to me to try to get me to convert to being a catholic, saying that we could not get married if *I* wasn't a catholic as well. She was not happy to find out that I was not an idiot that would eat out of her hand and be manipulated. She even wanted HER priest (who barely even knew any english) to officiate our wedding, with total disregard to the fact that *I* would not have a clue WHAT was being said at my own wedding. Obviously, that idea was shot down right away. Even now, she will pray before each meal, but it is always in korean, so nobody except for my DH and fil know what mil is, "praying" about. She doesn't seem to think that she is being disrespectful of me and thinks that I should basically adapt to her religious beliefs.

I was brought up non-religious. Well, now my DH and I belong to UU (unitarian universalist) church, which we love and which is accepting of all different religions, including eastern religions. My mil of course thinks it is a cult. Quite honestly, I think that the catholic church is pretty cultish from a non-religious person's POV, all the kneeling and standing and ritualistic stuff is just kind of weird to me. She keeps telling my DH (who is obviously no longer a practicing catholic) that whatever church we go to, it needs to be a church that prays to jesus, since it will be, "good" for our children {eye roll}. From my personal experience, a lot of catholics are very closed minded about other religions, so I choose to NOT get into a debate with them when it comes to religion, because they always think that they are right. Basically, we just let her tell us what to do, say, "uh huh, uh huh" and then do whatever we want to do. The, "asian" way is more about respecting elders and listening to their, "wisdom." However, it doesn't mean you have to do what they advise you to do. We have found this tactic to be a very effective way to deal with both my parents and mil to keep them happy, while still doing whatever we want to do in the end.

As for the dol, I don't think you need to go overboard. If your house is big enough to have a party at, do it at home. If there are relatives that you are friendly with, ask them for their advice, I bet they will be more than happy to offer suggestions. I think you should just pick and choose what you would like to do and what is feasible in your situation. All we did was dress my son up in his outfit and let him pick an object (he picked a pen, and my mil told everyone it meant he would have beautiful handwriting?!?!?). He had a cake and we let him eat it the, "american" way. Mil was very pissed off at us that we would not let him wear his hang bok for the cake part. I guess after living in the US for over 30 yrs, she did not know that many americans let the baby get messy eating their first bday cake. After she saw what a mess he had made of himself, she finally understood, but she was pretty mad at us when we wouldn't do it HER way, only to realize afterwards that we had a very good reason NOT to do things her way regarding the cake, since we did not want to ruin the hang bok that mil got for our son. So, in the end she understood our reasoning. Mil also made some traditional korean foods and we also had some american foods for friends who weren't familiar with korean food. That was about it. We actually did not do any chinese traditions, because my family isn't that traditional when it comes down to that sort of thing. We do a lot more korean things for my kids, b/c my mil and fil are very traditional, even though my kids are only 1/2 korean.

Best of luck with your baby's dol! Whatever you do, just remember that it is a happy event to celebrate your baby's bday. In the end, the small details won't really make that big of a difference. :)

[Mary]

Manaoin,

1) What should be included at a dol without going over the top and without putting myself in debt?

2)Where do I find these items?

Well, I had a low key dol too and we didn't have the towers of fake sweets.... =P I don't think the fake sweet towers are a must. he he.. if you want the picture effect, you can pile fruits up on the table. I think that's what my friend did. =)

We did get a ttuk cake that said "happy 1st b-day" on it in Korean though...

[Manaoin]

Thank you both for your advice! By the way, what is a 'ttuk' cake?

[Mary]

ttuk = rice cake

Koreans have it often at weddings, dol, any celebratory gatherings, etc... there are many varieties but the big cake kinds are usually the rainbow ttuk made with rice and sometimes has raisins and sweet beans inside it.

[dsmommy]

Manaoin - sorry to hear about all the struggles with the in-laws!

but re: the dol, like Mary said, if you make pyramid of fruit on a (apples, asian pears if you have them) you could do a watermelon where the top is cut with a "pinking" effect (sorry if that doesn't make sense). if you have the traditional clothes you can put your baby in them, although it isn't terribly comfortable and most kids end up wanting to take it off. but at least she can take some pictures with the relatives and maybe that would satisfy?
if you want to have the fake towers of sweets, you could start by asking at a korean restaurant that might have these kinds of celebrations if they rent these things, and if not do they know of a place that does. also, i think the thing that you could include that would not be a good way to include the korean side is the "dol jabi" which "predicts the future" of your child - you place an array of items and whatever she picks speaks into what she could be. (my daughter also picked the pen, which i think is supposed to mean that she will be scholarly - all the grandparents were super happy) although there are traditional items people now place other things, i've seen a gavel, a baseball bat, a stesthescope (sp?) etc. it's a fun tradition for everyone and maybe in that way you can keep with the korean side?

again - so sorry for all the stress this is causing you and i hope that the actual day of is stress free!

[Angie in Texas]

Hi Manaoin!

I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if my comment on the first round wasn't very helpful and seemed to blow you off . . . I didn't mean it like that. =)

For my daughter's and son's dols (she's 8, he's almost 6 now), we had "towers" of fruit (oranges, asian pears, a watermelon and apples) on the table along with a tower of gimbop (kind of like a sushi roll) and a tower of ttuk.

we hosted it here at my house. it was just easier that way. she was dressed in a hanbok with head dress (email me of you're interested). he was dressed in a boy one and had a head dress, too. (my sister's kids had theirs at restaurants - but they lived in korea at the time.)

we also did the dol jabi - a bowl of uncooked rice (never go hungry/prosperity), money (wealth), pen or a book (scholarly) and a toy (fun loving, care-free). you set up these items on a table and let the baby pick up what appeals most to her. the entire time the baby wears a "necklace" made by looping string multiple times (for long life).

we served a combination of korean and american food but people ate mostly korean food. (my kids are korean and caucasian. most of my friends are caucasian or mexican.)

according to my friend who lives on the island near seattle, "shilla" korean restaurant is the best korean . . . maybe going there with the child and asking for help might be useful. (take the child for the "awwww" factor.)

good luck!

[Swan]

Hi, my name is Swan and I was a Catholic POW(prisoner of worship). But I got better.

I also survived the mass cookery that was my nephew's dol(which my sis DIDN'T go over the top with and we all had a good time). And we got the wrong dduk cake, but we ate it anyway.

And it was all worth it to see my nephew in his hanbok, pick a spoon off the doljabee(despite my BIL laying several dollar bills on it), and play with him and his new toys. But then, there's isn't much I wouldn't do for that tyke.

Depending on the size of your gathering, a few simple dishes that can feed a crowd with snacks like mandoo and kim bop, or get entrees like chap jae and bulgogi made at home or by your local fave K-grocer/restaurant should do it on top of cake/dduk/fruit. Or if your hubby's sibs are cooking inclined(and don't turn into culinary dictators), let them get involved in the food prep. Judge carefully about the amount of food or you'll be eating leftovers for way longer than you planned.

There's actually several entries here regarding dols aside from the dol link to the right. If you want to spring for a hanbok, there's actually a hanbok store on Ebay.

Now that I think about it, there ought to be a link that features the Kimchi Mamas' kids' dols. Those a little shy about sharing pics of the kids, that's fine. But who doesn't take a picture of the food spread? I think I got a picture of my own dol somewhere around here...just ignore the dinosaurs in the background.

[Manaoin]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You have helped me quite a bit! And don't worry, Angie, I didn't feel blown off at all...just thought I'd repost on an actual Thursday to see if I could get a little more advice.

I'll post pics after the dol is finished in September!

Manaoin

[Mama Nabi]

On the other extreme of going over the top... I had uninterested in-laws (I am the Korean one - my ex in-laws are white midwesterners), uninterested guests... so I only did doljabi. It was a pencil (scholar), money(rich), paintbrush (artist), and couple other things I could grab.

Depending on your relationship with your sisters-in-law, you may want to involve one of them...? Or ask for some input, tell her that you would like to host a dol that would please them... just a warning, keep a steady rein on the control of the party because with a blink of an eye, your SIL could potentially swoop in and take over the entire party!

That way, you may also be sending a message to them that although you may seem (to them) inflexible about religious conversion, you are flexible and willing to get their input regarding cultural stuff. It's amazing how much people LOVE to be asked for their input - could help smoothe things for you...?

[kim]

Manaoin - My daughter's tol was held at home; we covered the dining room table (and then some!) with dish after dish from a local Korean restaurant AND a few platters of standard American party fare (guests were of several ethnicities so we wanted to offer lots of choices). We definitely piled up several plates of giant Fuji apples, Korean pears, oranges, giant grapes, etc. and used them around the toljabee pics instead of dealing with the fake towers of sweets. My daughter wore the hanbok I wore when I turned one, but we quickly changed her out of it after photos - there's no way I wanted to see that ancient outfit get messy! Let's see... we also had the giant rice cake, as well as a regular cake, for dessert. And she picked the wad of cash first during the toljabee, then scooped up a pencil and paint brush at the same time. We loved every minute of the party and were so happy that we organized the party the way WE wanted (versus bowing to in-laws desires). You can check out one quick photo at http://www.kimelee.com/gr/tol_family.jpg - let me know if you want to see more. Good luck!

[Diana]

I just wanted to share my daughter's picture taken at the mall this weekend in her tol dress.

We are going to have this picture printed on all of the cake boxes after the party.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m259/hart104/HaydenDol.jpg

And funny story...we are having decorators who happen to be korean coming in the morning of the party to decorate the banquet room. We were quoted at $500. My daughter's Halmoni called them up and said "That price too much! You need to give me special deal!" So the ladies knock off $100 from the price. Then she says "And you don't cut any corners on that deal. I still want cake boxes!" all angry sounding. I just sat there laughing.

[Mary]

Diana, what a beautiful picture!

LOL. Halmoni story is funny and rings so true!

[darthfoofie]

This is a picture of the spread for my daughter's dol in 2005.

And this is my dol in Korea waaaaaay back in 1972. And Swan thought she is a dinosaur. ^^

I'm excited to be having my son's dol at my family's place in three weeks.

BTW, just so you don't think I'm a crajee random poster, I used to be Puka. My blog used to be listed on banchan until I decided to go more undercover. kkkk

[Swan]

Darthfoofie - I swear my parents & grandparents had the same exact folding screen! And my dol was in 1974 - not too far off...must figure out how to photoshop out bad hairdo's.

[tracy]

Hi there... love this blog! I am not sure if it is OK to put this here, but want to let people know that we have au pairs from Korea! The first Korean au pairs to come to America via our cultural exchange program are coming this summer. Au pairs live with you and they can provide up to 45 hours a week of childcare for about $305... If you want more information, I would be happy to tell you: southbayaupairs AT yahoo.com